Well, What Kind of Thinker *Am* I?

[chomiji]

A Saturday is a perfect time for a meme! This one is ganked from kispexi2:

Your Thinking is Abstract and Random

You are flexible, adaptable, and creative. There's many ways that you can learn - and you're up for any of them. You relate well to other people, and you do well working in groups. You can help people communicate together and work with each other's strengths. You don't work well with people who are competitive or adversarial. You prefer to work toward a common goal... not toward conflicting goals. What Kind of Thinker Are You?

Whoa, pretty good result there for only 4 questions!

Comments

surprise surprise

[theloomofmoira.livejournal.com]

I am also abstract and random.

Re: surprise surprise

[chomiji]

:-)

I love tracking how these things match (or don't) the more well-regarded personality tests, like the MBTI! Someday I ought to make a big table of all my LJ friends who usually do these things along with me, and see how they track.

[freeradical9.livejournal.com]

LOL! Smillaraaq, this is exactly the same match I got, too (and it made me think of all the Edo-era research, as well). ^_^ I also feel that the first two sections are a pretty good match, but the last one, not so much. Perhaps it's a flaw in the questionnaire. It's a pretty interesting meme topic, though.

[freeradical9.livejournal.com]

Ooh, Concrete and Random is nice! Your comment about starting in the middle of a series made me laugh--I only do that by accident. ^_^

Most of the memes probably aren't generated by professional psychologists, so probably there's stuff that gets lost in translation when the questions are being written. I agree that more often than not, these quizzes have questions where there really doesn't seem to be any one fitting answer. :

[chomiji]

Have you ever done the Meyers-Briggs Type Inventory, free9? I always mentally check these things versus that, because it's fairly well accepted in schools and workplaces (and also because I agree with its analysis of me ... LOL!). With several of my friends, I know what types they test as on that also, and it can be interesting to see whether these more fly-by-night tests point in similar directions. (I'm a little surprised, for example, that smilla didn't end up with a result more like mine - or mine like hers! - and not suprised that blue_hobbit (below) ended up with the same thing I did.)

(I'm an INFP on the MBTI, BTW.)

[freeradical9.livejournal.com]

Eh heh. Hadn't taken one since junior high.

Out of curiosity, I ran the meme link from your blog archive and the meme link from a different one avierra had posted previously, and got two slightly different results: ISFJ and ISTJ. Both alternatives seem pretty accurate by my own evaluation; I took a test a while back for right brain vs. left brain dominance and scored pretty much in the center, which may explain the T vs. F result.

The act of finding two different questionnaires to compare the results probably verifies the "sensing" aspect of my personality. ^_^

So, to relate it to your comment above, certainly my MBTI result matches most of the "abstract sequential" results of the thinker meme--but the "It's difficult for you to work with people who know less than you do." and "You aren't a very patient teacher" don't jive very well, especially with the ISFJ nurturer in me.

...And INFP definitely fits with what I know of your personality from the time we've been friends. Works nicely with your current default icon, too. ^_^

[freeradical9.livejournal.com]

Interestingly, on that one I wasn't terribly close to the middle for T/F. My results are here. I think a lot of it might have to do with mindset at the time the quiz is taken. (Last night my brain was pretty fried after a long day, so).

I think you may be onto something about the internal baseline vs. face presented to the world. I think ISFJ is a better match for me overall, but can definitely see myself slipping into an ISTJ mode, especially when dealing with strangers.

[chomiji]

Oh phooey, I wanted to line up all the badge versions of those results (like we used here) and talk about them, but I don't have the badge version for you, freeradical9 (and my attempts at cracking the way they're generated was a total failure) ... well, here's my big profile.

All three of us have high Naturalist scores, although you guys are both significantly higher than I am. And you're also more Introverted (mine is only 74%). I have visions of us sitting in a forest clearing, and I'm insisting on talking while you guys want to just be.

But freeradical9 has a way higher Intrapersonal score than either me or smilla. And looking at my and smilla's Verbal/Linguistic scores in comparison with free9's, it's no wonder that we seem to dumping out buckets and buckets of words ... if we all got together FTF, I would have to be putting on the brakes from time to time because I bet free9 would be thinking up some really good, cohesive ideas about Point A while we'd already zoomed ahead to Point D, leaving unfinished bits of ideas behind us like crumbs ... .

[freeradical9.livejournal.com]

Ahahaha. I *so* can not keep up with you guys.

I actually had good intentions to visit this thread last night and join in, but accidentally fell asleep trying to get my rambunctious preschooler off to dreamland. I *want* some of that energy!

I have visions of us sitting in a forest clearing, and I'm insisting on talking while you guys want to just be.

*grin* With your introversion score of 74%, I bet we could manage a compromise (it's the plane passenger or person on line who needs to *constantly* be in a conversation in order to feel secure that drives me really bonkers). Like smillaraaq's comments below, it's easier to be doing mechanical things in a group setting, so I'd be fine if it were something that didn't require intense concentration. And although I can't really write and carry on a conversation at the same time, I'm actually very good at tuning out background noise so I don't have a problem writing in a public place or in a crowded house.

And looking at my and smilla's Verbal/Linguistic scores in comparison with free9's, it's no wonder that we seem to dumping out buckets and buckets of words

This is actually a really eye-opening comment for me. I've always wondered how some people are able to be so prolific in lj. I thought up to this point it was entirely a time issue, that some folks just had jobs that allowed some surfing during the day, or had more time in the evening to journal. Now I'm realizing that at least a portion of it might be due to personal style. A person who has a lot of verbal/linguistic tendancies can probably put-together a paragraph a lot more quickly than one who is very deliberate and has to fact-check everything. Huh.

... if we all got together FTF

*sigh* I had been hoping to go to Otakon this year, and as such (since your location is posted in userinfo) I thought it might be cool to suggest meeting up. Unfortunately, a family obligation is going to prevent me from attending the con this year. Maybe next year, or if either you or Smilla ever decide visit the New York area....

[chomiji]

I surf more during the day than I should, and there are things I just won't look at when I'm in the office. But I can also squeeze 45 minutes in the morning, between when the Mr. and the Young Lady go off (or she sleeps in, when there's no school) and I have to get ready to go. And then I can squeeze in 1.5-2.5 hours in the evening after kitchen duty is over. I'm not quite as prolific as smilla, I think because I read and re-read everything (and still end up with typos - it's sad). But yes, I compose on-the-fly very rapidly. And although I'm shy of public speaking, I can be a pretty effective off-the-cuff speaker in meetings.

I had almost forgotten about Otakon! I'm sorry we won't see you! We will be driving to Cape Cod around Aug. 8/9, and coming back the next week. We usually swing up and over NYC on the Tappan Zee and head across Westchester to Connecticut. I don't know whereabouts you're located, but ... . (This is an open post, BTW, so maybe you want to use a personal message for any more details.)

[chomiji]

Back in college and in our early going together/married-no-kids days, I had an active FTF geek social life: a couple of roleplaying games and regular Society for Creative Anachronism activities kept me very content on the social level. My favorite SCA activity was actually Baron Kay and Baroness Elaina's weekly "At Homes," which was just geeky people sitting around their living room, ostensibly planning events and working on costumes, but in reality mostly just schmoozing.

Having a child isolated me a great deal. Most of our friends weren't even married at the time. The fairly serious post-partum depression I had was due at least in part to the sudden cut-off of all that.

Starting an LJ, communicating with people here (and I give sanada huge props for her support by e-mail my first several months, when I still barely knew anyone) and now actually seeing some people FTF has been the best thing that's happened to me socially since the Young Lady was born.

I don't have huge amounts of online time, at any one time, though I can snatch dribs and drabs throughout the day. The other thing is that I often over-think what I'm writing (worrying about how the recipients will react), with the result that I frequently go back and edit what I'm writing before I post it ... so I tend be running as fast as I can to stay in one place on my responses, sometimes!

[freeradical9.livejournal.com]

Oh, you're right! ^_^

I was actually laughing about my own introversion score earlier, when I ran across a test that had the T/F statement "You would be perfectly happy living life as a hermit". Yep. (As long as I had internet access, of course). ^^

[chomiji]

Oh, not me! I need my people! I hate crowds of strangers, but I crave the company of those I know. My Nice Colleague is on vacation for two weeks, and I'm already going nuts - the only real human contact I had during the day was briefing my boss, and that was hardly "interaction." I'll be stark raving before the end of her vacation ... .

And online is wonderful, but sometimes I just need people where I can hug them, or rub their backs, or something. (More Gojyo-ish-ness, there ... .)

[chomiji]

See, I hate getting at all close to strangers in those situations - I never know what their expectations are because I don't know them well enough to read what they're not saying, and it makes me feel very off-kilter.

And I need quiet to recharge as well - but first I need to have the social interaction to have something to make me need the recharge! Also, my really preferred mode of quite is what I call "cat socializing": you're in the room with another person or two, and you're all doing your own thing, like reading. But it's better than being completely by yourself, because you have company.

[chomiji]

BTW, the Young Lady did this meme also. And she got a result very different from ours ... .

[chomiji]

Hhhm, your result reminds me of my sister, who rides the edge between INTJ and INFJ.

I'm curious about how your S/J function works in with the length at which we rattle on here sometimes, on sheer speculation!   ;-)

My brother-in-law (the Mr.'s younger brother) is an ISTJ, and I'm always amazed that he likes fantasy RPG. But he does, and is very good at breaking up disagreements before they turn nasty. So the MBTI only takes one so far ... .

This site is good at summarizing the negatives of the types: we INFPs are also attracted to sad things, disorganized, avoidant, prone to quitting, prone to feelings of loneliness, act without planning, emotionally moody, prone to lateness, frequently lose things, easily distracted, can act without thinking, can sabotage self, likes the rain, and can feel defective and victimized.

[freeradical9.livejournal.com]

Hhhm, your result reminds me of my sister, who rides the edge between INTJ and INFJ.

Ooh, very interesting. Seems like a lot of folks have a thin line dividing T and F. ^^ In my case, half my job description is scientist (ISTJ) and the other half is teacher (ISFJ), and those are pretty dramatically different skill sets, so that probably has something to do with it, as well.

I'm curious about how your S/J function works in with the length at which we rattle on here sometimes, on sheer speculation!

*laugh* Well, I'm not sure that Judging has much of an effect, except that it's probably one of the reasons I don't get involved much in discussion threads. I have to think things through twice and three times before posting--and by then the topic's usually already moved past the point where I can say anything useful! ^_^ But, oh, I love speculation. One of my favorite aspects of it is to try and take a wild idea and find a way to make it fit with existing canon facts (which is probably why I like writing for prompts. It also seems to drive a lot of my independent writing ideas).

In Saiyuki, I identify very strongly with Hakkai (I bet he'd be an ISFJ). IMHO, we're a lot alike in personality--minus the incest and mass-murders, of course. ;)

So the MBTI only takes one so far ... .

*laugh* I'd agree with that. Organized, hah! Meyers and Briggs haven't seen my desk. Sure, I know which *pile* I put that important paper in, but at the end of the day it's still a messy desk. ^_^

[freeradical9.livejournal.com]

I identify much much more strongly with Gojyo in general...but he's something of an extrovert (tho'...I think he has a shy side....

I'd agree with that. Gojyo's interesting that way, actually. I'd certainly call him an extrovert, but he's a small-group extrovert. Definitely not the "always has to be the life of the party" type, and not the performance/grandstanding type. In a way, he might be only one step up from an introvert. ^^

Kenren, funnily enough, while I love him to pieces, I just can't identify with him the way I do Gojyo

This is really interesting--because I feel a very similar way about Tenpou. I *like* Tenpou and feel I understand him fairly well, but don't have the shameless fan appreciation for him that I have for Hakkai. I'd originally thought that might just be because there's so much less of Saiyuki Gaiden, and there hasn't been the time to really fully develop the characters. But I think you've really hit on something with the comment about a painful past, because trauma and the reactions to it have a strong impact on both Hakkai's and Gojyo's motivations. The crew up in heaven just never had that.

[chomiji]

I think a lot of Gojyo's loudness and sexually forward behavior comes from his longing to be loved and accepted. When you look at the company in which he's been living most of his older life, it's all hustlers, petty criminals, bar girls, gamblers: the sort of people who appreciate a bon vivant, a guy who lives big. That's what he had to do to get the attention and physical closeness he needs. It also gives him a wistful quality that Kenren never has. One presumes Kenren was born to privilege, loved for himself. You can certainly see it in the way the soldiers joke with him. But it does mean that he's entirely missing the little-boy-lost undercurrent that makes Gojyo so appealing.

I think also that a steady relationship with Hakkai will start toning down a lot of Gojyo's mouthiness, except when he wants to tease Goku and Sanzo.

[chomiji]

Agreed - his model for close peer or near-peer interactions is Jien and later (God help us) Banri ... (and I always take emungere's Banri from "Clean" as the definitive picture of what's inside his head). We actually see some of Jien coming through in this latest volume, when the little youkai kid gets pinned under the fallen cart.

I have a feeling that Hakkai teases Gojyo's story out of him bit by bit. As we were saying at lunch, Hakkai is spilling his guts (bad choice of phrase!), and Gojyo is thinking a lot about his own story, but he's no saying anything.

[chomiji]

Yes, when Gojyo's not happy with himself, he goes all INFP-ish ... one of the reasons I identify with him so much! ANd I have to agree about Kenren. He's hot, sexy, and all that, and I like hi, but I feel no special connection.

[chomiji]

I actually think the Gojyo public side is even a bit more dysfunctional than that - he does it because, with the people he's known, that's what you do to get attention and intimacy. He doesn't know any other way, really, but Hakkai is teaching him.

[chomiji]

Did you ever read the children's book The Gammage Cup? One of the leads, Muggles the candy-maker (and this was way before Harry Potter), has the messiest cottage in the village. But she knows what's in every pile. About once a year, the Mayor gets her to clean it up, and then she can't find anything until it all slides back into the usual piles.

I usually say that Gojyo resembles the inner me - the part that people only see when they know me well - and Hakkai resembles the outer me. I have a feeling that Hakkai doesn't think much of the human (or for that matter, the youkai) race in general - his own are another matter - whereas Gojyo, despite all the nastiness of his history, still has a little Anne Frank inside: "I still believe that people are really good at heart."

[freeradical9.livejournal.com]

Did you ever read the children's book The Gammage Cup?

I'm afraid to say that I've never even heard of it before. The description made me laugh. Clearly I'm gonna have to go look it up, now. :)

I usually say that Gojyo resembles the inner me - the part that people only see when they know me well - and Hakkai resembles the outer me.

That's a good combination. The best of both worlds. :)

I have a feeling that Hakkai doesn't think much of the human (or for that matter, the youkai) race in general....whereas Gojyo....

I'm intrigued by that comment, because the "in general" makes me think again in terms of groups or scale (see extrovert Gojyo comment above). Hakkai would willingly give up everything (kill 1,000 youkai or take a head-on strike from Kami-sama's prayer beads) for someone important to him but Gojyo is unflinchingly willing to act on behalf of complete strangers and often for people to arguably don't deserve it. His capacity for acceptance and forgiveness of people in general (and generally of the worst sorts of people) really does make Gojyo the most compassionate of the ikkou.

[chomiji]

Gojyo constantly breaks my heart that way - his trying to rescue Kami-sama is the quinetssential Gojyo moment for me. The fact that even I might not be quite so forgiving (and damn near self-sacrificing ... I wonder what was going through Hakkai's head at that moment?) makes me get into my Hakkai mode and become fiercely protective of him.

[chomiji]

Yes, exactly. Hakkai has an incredible intensity, but he's not inherently a generous spirit. Gojyo gives of himself because he doesn't know any other way to be. smilla has often said he reminds her of certain types of dogs, and he's like that, like a big, friendly dog who automatically puts itself in the way of danger to help people it's only just met. He just lives to be close, so he fits himself into any group that will accept him almost instantly, and makes that group his own. What's special about the ikkou, and of course especially Hakkai, is that they value him as well as liking him, and he responds to that.

(This is reminding me of lousielux's story "Burning," where Sanzo comes face to face with his feelings about Gojyo, and realizes how much he appreciates that Gojyo has his back.)

[chomiji]

I have a feeling this test tended to paint in rather broad strokes. Maybe we ought to compare exactly what we answered on each question ... y.

[chomiji]

OK, so it fell out like this:

Question no.	smilla	cho
1	4	4
2	3	2
3	4	3
4	1	3
5	3	2

Hmmm ... see, I prefer working with people, and especially those I like. I start feeling cut-off and weird when I don't have some interaction during the day. And I hate, hate, hate working in an unhappy, competitive environment. And for me, "debating" is always a negative. It's not like "discussing." For it to be a debate, there would have to be disagreement. And that could mean unpleasantness. Yes, I can deal with it - but it's not something I seek. And I feel most "me" when I'm sharing and communicating.

The one thing that could have gone either way for me was (4): both answer 1 and answer (3) have an element of real-world, but (1) is more hands-on. I like that as a way to learn well.

[chomiji]

Yes, I actually initiate conversations sometimes! With strangers! (I have a feeling that as I become a little old lady - OK, a big old lady - I'll be even more forward. You can get away with more when you look crone-ish.) That's one of my more-Gojyo, less-Hakkai points.

I don't like interruptions if I'm doing something picky or tense. My ideal job would consist of myself and three or so very nice people working on different aspects of the same project, and dropping in on each others' offices as needed. When I was doing the telephone support, and initially on the websites, I shared an office with someone doing the same work, and it was surprisingly pleasant.

I think better if I talk problems through with other people - even here online! (You've probably seen me do that.)

I don't generally like organizing stuff. I can do it. But it;s not pleasant.

I love troubleshooting stuff, but that's another area in which having the input of peers can be really useful.

(Heh, looks like I should go back and tag most of these things "personality." I'll certainly do this one ... .)

[chomiji]

Well, it's different if you're already doing something like reading, or listening to music! I do feel irritated also when I'm daydreaming actively and I get interrupted, but I accept that it's very hard for anyone to tell that I'm doing something in that case! (I have that happen in the car at night a lot. I love being a passenger in a car, as long as we're not stuck intraffic - it's very relaxing. And it's a great time to tell myself a nice - and sometimes naughty - story. But I'll get the Mr. asking anxiously "Are you OK?" because I get so quiet.)

[chomiji]

I know what you mean about the survival mechanism thing ... sometimes I get grumpy about my big, stern facial features, but it's definitely been a help in that sort of situation, and once I started wearing glasses full time again, it became even moreso. I've also cultivated a blank, nonreactive, unhearing face that stops even persistent beggars after one attempt.

I have occasionally run into the sort of chatty non-reader you describe, but it was mostly back in my college days, when I was taking the bus to and from Charlottesville.

[freeradical9.livejournal.com]

Ooh. Flexible and creative, with strong communication skills. Very nice! ^_^

[chomiji]

I'm such a sucker for tests that flatter ... .

[blue-hobbit.livejournal.com]

I got the same result... abstract and random, that definitely sounds like me ;)

[chomiji]

Yes, it is the INFP way!

XD