Does Mr Cho regard the manga with a bit of suspicion? Mr Kis and the S&H are vaguely uncomfortable about it. I'm sure they get the yaoi undertones but can't quite believe what they're seeing. :-)
He's so funny with some of the manga I get! I had left Antique Bakery in the bathroom. I don't know if you're familiar with that one - it's basically a witty soap opera about 4 men running a French pastry shop in Tokyo. The chief pastry chef is a "gay of demonic charm" (actually, he's a complicated character who seduces other men as a means of filling the emptiness he feels inside), and the Mr. once commented that it was nothing but "guys making eyes at each other." But he read all 4 volumes anyway ... .
As long as a story has some decent plot to it, I think he can appreciate most of them on some level. The only one that's completely put him off thus far, I think, is the teeny-bopper-ish one I got purely because one of my LJ friends did the script, and I wanted to support her. And he lost interest in Fruits Basket fairly quickly. But there are times that I get fed up with Fruits Basket myself!
the Mr. once commented that it was nothing but "guys making eyes at each other." But he read all 4 volumes anyway ... .
That's quite a recommendation, isn't it? Must see if I can find some AB. My only encounter with it was via a fic which I read because of the author, just to see if they were as good conveying fandoms I wasn't familiar with as they were with ones I was. They were.
Guys definitely like plot, don't they? Mr Kis and S&H love Death Note whereas it leaves me mostly cold. It's intellectually stimulating, but not emotionally.
Thanks. Although I'm going to have to start pretending I don't have birthdays soon.
(Now, the manga-ka has also done her own post-series "official" doujinshi, and those are a very different story indeed so far as the proportion of BL content goes. *fans self*)
I can never quite decide whether I like my BL explicit or as subtext. *ponders* I love the subtext in Saiyuki but I also really like some of the Yuki/Shuichi scenes in Gravitation. Hmmm. I think we're back to the really hot thing - tension!
I liked the first part of DeathNote, but L was my favorite character, so you know at which point I thought the whole thing went south! Since then, I've only read a few volumes - just enough to understand telophase's many snarky Mello references and icons. My favorite icon of hers:
AB is nice, but very different from most of the manga I've enjoyed, which are generally fantasies of some sort. And it ended after only 4 volumes ... >sob<
Have you read Fake - which we're pitching to avierra in my Shaman Warrior thread-snarl down-LJ - ? It's a short (7-volume) BL series about a pair of cops in (a rather fantasized) New York City. Dee is an openly, cheerfully bi guy who instantly develops a crush on his new partner, shy, half-Japanese Randy. Most of the story is about their developing relationship both as partners and (at the very, very end) lovers. The UST simmers along nicely and makes the final scenes pack a lot of punch.
I've tried watching it on YouTube but the anime didn't do much for me. I'll look out for the manga. (Manga is so damn expensive here - £7 /volume ... not that I don't get a lot of use out of it though!)
(Hee, your birthday's about a week after mine, lion-child - that should make it easy to remember! For the last several years mine have been mainly celebrated along with Kat's hubby's, up in Cape Cod, because his is a couple of days before mine. So we eat out, share a Kat-made, girls-decorated cake, and exchange a gift or two each direction. It's low-key but pleasant.)
Light is evil, evil, evil. L reminded me of a lot of brainy, not-quite-there-socially guys I knew. In fact, I have a couple of his tics myself, although nowadays I can usually control my temptation to build towers out of coffee creamers and such ... .
The only thing I could see sinking Saiyuki is Minekura's health. It's enough to make one want to try some sympathetic magic, to keep her vigorous and drawing.
I've found the whole set of FAKE manga on ebay and am watching it carefully. So far, it's a bargain price so you may ensnare me after all!
I've read quite a bit of Viewfinder (and let me digress a bit here into waffling about the fanfic ... whereas 'sweet' canon tends to give rise to quite dark fanfic, VF fanfic seems largely very lovey-dovey. Weird. Kind of confirms the notion that the urge to fanfic is to 'correct' canon). Anyway, yes, VF is almost impossible to find in English. I checked Amazon and ebay and it was selling for nearly £300!!!
Bookmooch! For some reason I never think of Bookmooch. I'll go bookmark it now, so that I remember.
I loved L's madness. He seemed like a very pure kind of person to me. No veneer. OTOH he certainly understood evil.
The only thing I could see sinking Saiyuki is Minekura's health. It's enough to make one want to try some sympathetic magic, to keep her vigorous and drawing.
Did you ever read Legal Drug? I was really enjoying that and then *poof!* Hiatus!
*nods about Death Note* Although any artwork that is condemned as corrupting (as DN was) merits investigation, it's too linear (even with all the plot twists) for me. Very plot-driven.
I've mostly been ignoring mine for years because they've tended to be unhappy occasions.
I'm sorry to hear that.
Subtext-only is much more inspiring for fanworks, IMO, since you have so much more imaginative room to play with without fear of contradicting canon; but at the same time it can just be so deeply satisfying to see a favorite couple get together in canon when there's been a long buildup of UST and subtext to ramp up that delicious tension.
That is all so very true. And my very favourite thing is when the years of subtext that I've been seeing turn out to be exactly (or very nearly exactly) what the story's creator was working towards. When that happens, it's both intellectually and emotionally rewarding.
even in something like Crimson Spell or Under Grand Hotel where the sex starts pretty much in the first chapter or so, there's still huge amounts of tension over whether it means anything, unspoken emotional content, misunderstandings, and so forth; there's still plenty of unresolved tension to keep the plot spinning, even if it's mostly not UST!
Ooh, yes! Unresolved Emotional Tension is great too. But it has to be logical/reasonable. Like say, if the lovers have vastly different agendas that keep them in conflict. Arguing for arguing's sake gets boring very quickly.
(But I'm a real sucker for the UST when it's done well, too. One of my favorite series has been in somewhat-irregular publication for over thirty years at this point, with the pursuit and tension between the boys still cheerfully unresolved...)
You know I have to ask ... what is it? Cuz it sounds delicious!
Unfortunately, there seems to be a dearth of GOOD fic for this fandom
If my theory holds true, I'd suspect this is because canon is really good!
At least it does seem to inspire a lot of fic, just from all the postings I see showing up on the LJ community
It does - but most of it is really badly written (and I'm someone who can ignore grammatical errors if the underlying story grabs me) by writers unhindered by a horror of cliche. {/bitca]
Thanks for the Bookmooch stuff. I'll explore later and tuck your account away for future use.
it's far too easy for that sort of thing to feel artificial and forced if the misunderstanding doesn't stem in part from the characters' own personalities...
*nods* And if a relationship starts out based on snark and conflict, the temptation for writers is to keep revisiting issues that have already been resolved simply to keep the angry!sex going. Although snarky ships do have appeal, I find it pretty limited and short-lived. Eventually the characters have to soften towards each other and then the spark goes out.
Yasuko Aoike's From Eroica With Love
I remember the name obviously and - OMG - now I remember the hair too! *shudder* It does sound interesting though so yes, please! Link me up. :-)
The ships that people go for will never cease to interest me. Particularly when people I seem to have a lot in common with don't go for *my* ships.
As for VF fandom, well, I may be being a bit too critical. It's just I get the impression that the fangirls get all over-heated by canon (and who can blame them!), then rush into writing without any clear notion of what they're doing or what they want to say. Ack. Am going of pseudy about fanfic! Shoot me now.
I was really interested in LD's shop owner. A very cool blond guy with a huge, dark-haired lover. He had this very quiet air of menace about him that made him far more fascinating that the leading characters/pairing. That's not to say I didn't enjoy them, it's just the boss guy seemed to have so much unstated backstory. (The boss guy always appeals to me! Bloody oestrogen!)
I'm like you, re plot-driven. I can read and enjoy but I don't fixate like I do with more emotionally rich stories.
Hee! Your adoration for this series just pours off the computer screen! It sounds great fun - if Japanese-style bizarre - so I've joined the comm. Now all I need is a long holiday from Real Life to get stuck into all these goodies people keep pimping at me. ;-)
It's just such an utterly INSANE series that it makes me giggle delightedly from cover to cover, and I'm constantly trying to lure people into it because it's just such pure silly fun, and so little-known. This seems to be rather common reaction -- the fandom is very small, although it's had a bit of a boost thanks to the CMX editions, but what it lacks in numbers it makes up for in enthusiasm. (It's also got a small but rather dedicated, and for the most part generally rather talented, cadre of ficcers; it's a little harder to find stuff that maintains the same lunatic tone as the original, but there are some very good comedy pieces out there; and some of the serious angsty fics are also very well done.)
And did I mention that Klaus and Sanzo could be siblings, at least so far as personality is concerned? Much like our favorite priest, the poor long-suffering Major is forced to deal with annoying, senseless orders from his sleazy superiors, constantly having to ride herd on annoying underlings, fending off disgusting attentions from flirtatious perverts, and dealing with tiresome, incompetent allies and even worse enemies getting in the way of his all-important missions. He's surrounded by idiots and Not At All Amused by it, and there are times where it seems like the only things he's truly enthusiastic about are his coffee, his cigarettes, and his gun... ;)
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branchandroot
no subject
Date: 2008-05-04 08:32 pm (UTC)forcedpersuaded Mr Kis to watch some Saiyuki Gunlock!no subject
Date: 2008-05-06 02:00 am (UTC)My Mr. reads the manga, although it's vaguely disheartening to hear them summed up as "pretty funny"!
I'm glad it was a good birthday!
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Date: 2008-05-06 07:26 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-05-06 11:33 am (UTC)He's so funny with some of the manga I get! I had left Antique Bakery in the bathroom. I don't know if you're familiar with that one - it's basically a witty soap opera about 4 men running a French pastry shop in Tokyo. The chief pastry chef is a "gay of demonic charm" (actually, he's a complicated character who seduces other men as a means of filling the emptiness he feels inside), and the Mr. once commented that it was nothing but "guys making eyes at each other." But he read all 4 volumes anyway ... .
As long as a story has some decent plot to it, I think he can appreciate most of them on some level. The only one that's completely put him off thus far, I think, is the teeny-bopper-ish one I got purely because one of my LJ friends did the script, and I wanted to support her. And he lost interest in Fruits Basket fairly quickly. But there are times that I get fed up with Fruits Basket myself!
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Date: 2008-05-06 02:07 pm (UTC)That's quite a recommendation, isn't it? Must see if I can find some AB. My only encounter with it was via a fic which I read because of the author, just to see if they were as good conveying fandoms I wasn't familiar with as they were with ones I was. They were.
Guys definitely like plot, don't they? Mr Kis and S&H love Death Note whereas it leaves me mostly cold. It's intellectually stimulating, but not emotionally.
no subject
Date: 2008-05-07 07:06 am (UTC)(Now, the manga-ka has also done her own post-series "official" doujinshi, and those are a very different story indeed so far as the proportion of BL content goes. *fans self*)
I can never quite decide whether I like my BL explicit or as subtext. *ponders* I love the subtext in Saiyuki but I also really like some of the Yuki/Shuichi scenes in Gravitation. Hmmm. I think we're back to the really hot thing - tension!
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Date: 2008-05-07 12:16 pm (UTC)I liked the first part of DeathNote, but L was my favorite character, so you know at which point I thought the whole thing went south! Since then, I've only read a few volumes - just enough to understand telophase's many snarky Mello references and icons. My favorite icon of hers:
AB is nice, but very different from most of the manga I've enjoyed, which are generally fantasies of some sort. And it ended after only 4 volumes ... >sob<
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Date: 2008-05-07 12:21 pm (UTC)Have you read Fake - which we're pitching to avierra in my Shaman Warrior thread-snarl down-LJ - ? It's a short (7-volume) BL series about a pair of cops in (a rather fantasized) New York City. Dee is an openly, cheerfully bi guy who instantly develops a crush on his new partner, shy, half-Japanese Randy. Most of the story is about their developing relationship both as partners and (at the very, very end) lovers. The UST simmers along nicely and makes the final scenes pack a lot of punch.
no subject
Date: 2008-05-07 12:38 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-05-07 12:40 pm (UTC)And it ended after only 4 volumes ... >sob<
I feel your pain. Every show/series I invest in gets cancelled. I live in dread of TokyoPop deciding to drop Saiyuki.
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Date: 2008-05-08 02:24 am (UTC)(Hee, your birthday's about a week after mine, lion-child - that should make it easy to remember! For the last several years mine have been mainly celebrated along with Kat's hubby's, up in Cape Cod, because his is a couple of days before mine. So we eat out, share a Kat-made, girls-decorated cake, and exchange a gift or two each direction. It's low-key but pleasant.)
no subject
Date: 2008-05-08 02:28 am (UTC)Light is evil, evil, evil. L reminded me of a lot of brainy, not-quite-there-socially guys I knew. In fact, I have a couple of his tics myself, although nowadays I can usually control my temptation to build towers out of coffee creamers and such ... .
The only thing I could see sinking Saiyuki is Minekura's health. It's enough to make one want to try some sympathetic magic, to keep her vigorous and drawing.
no subject
Date: 2008-05-08 06:51 am (UTC)I've read quite a bit of Viewfinder (and let me digress a bit here into waffling about the fanfic ... whereas 'sweet' canon tends to give rise to quite dark fanfic, VF fanfic seems largely very lovey-dovey. Weird. Kind of confirms the notion that the urge to fanfic is to 'correct' canon). Anyway, yes, VF is almost impossible to find in English. I checked Amazon and ebay and it was selling for nearly £300!!!
Bookmooch! For some reason I never think of Bookmooch. I'll go bookmark it now, so that I remember.
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Date: 2008-05-08 07:23 am (UTC)The only thing I could see sinking Saiyuki is Minekura's health. It's enough to make one want to try some sympathetic magic, to keep her vigorous and drawing.
Good plan!
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Date: 2008-05-08 07:35 am (UTC)*nods about Death Note* Although any artwork that is condemned as corrupting (as DN was) merits investigation, it's too linear (even with all the plot twists) for me. Very plot-driven.
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Date: 2008-05-08 07:41 am (UTC)I'm sorry to hear that.
Subtext-only is much more inspiring for fanworks, IMO, since you have so much more imaginative room to play with without fear of contradicting canon; but at the same time it can just be so deeply satisfying to see a favorite couple get together in canon when there's been a long buildup of UST and subtext to ramp up that delicious tension.
That is all so very true. And my very favourite thing is when the years of subtext that I've been seeing turn out to be exactly (or very nearly exactly) what the story's creator was working towards. When that happens, it's both intellectually and emotionally rewarding.
even in something like Crimson Spell or Under Grand Hotel where the sex starts pretty much in the first chapter or so, there's still huge amounts of tension over whether it means anything, unspoken emotional content, misunderstandings, and so forth; there's still plenty of unresolved tension to keep the plot spinning, even if it's mostly not UST!
Ooh, yes! Unresolved Emotional Tension is great too. But it has to be logical/reasonable. Like say, if the lovers have vastly different agendas that keep them in conflict. Arguing for arguing's sake gets boring very quickly.
(But I'm a real sucker for the UST when it's done well, too. One of my favorite series has been in somewhat-irregular publication for over thirty years at this point, with the pursuit and tension between the boys still cheerfully unresolved...)
You know I have to ask ... what is it? Cuz it sounds delicious!
no subject
Date: 2008-05-08 07:56 am (UTC)If my theory holds true, I'd suspect this is because canon is really good!
At least it does seem to inspire a lot of fic, just from all the postings I see showing up on the LJ community
It does - but most of it is really badly written (and I'm someone who can ignore grammatical errors if the underlying story grabs me) by writers unhindered by a horror of cliche. {/bitca]
Thanks for the Bookmooch stuff. I'll explore later and tuck your account away for future use.
no subject
Date: 2008-05-08 08:21 am (UTC)*nods* And if a relationship starts out based on snark and conflict, the temptation for writers is to keep revisiting issues that have already been resolved simply to keep the angry!sex going. Although snarky ships do have appeal, I find it pretty limited and short-lived. Eventually the characters have to soften towards each other and then the spark goes out.
Yasuko Aoike's From Eroica With Love
I remember the name obviously and - OMG - now I remember the hair too! *shudder* It does sound interesting though so yes, please! Link me up. :-)
no subject
Date: 2008-05-08 08:27 am (UTC)As for VF fandom, well, I may be being a bit too critical. It's just I get the impression that the fangirls get all over-heated by canon (and who can blame them!), then rush into writing without any clear notion of what they're doing or what they want to say. Ack. Am going of pseudy about fanfic! Shoot me now.
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Date: 2008-05-08 08:32 am (UTC)I'm like you, re plot-driven. I can read and enjoy but I don't fixate like I do with more emotionally rich stories.
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Date: 2008-05-08 09:59 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-05-08 10:35 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-05-08 10:45 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-05-08 11:20 am (UTC)And did I mention that Klaus and Sanzo could be siblings, at least so far as personality is concerned? Much like our favorite priest, the poor long-suffering Major is forced to deal with annoying, senseless orders from his sleazy superiors, constantly having to ride herd on annoying underlings, fending off disgusting attentions from flirtatious perverts, and dealing with tiresome, incompetent allies and even worse enemies getting in the way of his all-important missions. He's surrounded by idiots and Not At All Amused by it, and there are times where it seems like the only things he's truly enthusiastic about are his coffee, his cigarettes, and his gun... ;)
no subject
Date: 2008-05-08 11:32 am (UTC)It sure does! It certainly seems to provoke lengthy posts, not to mention classical allusions. Throw in some Latin, and I'll be completely hooked.
And did I mention that Klaus and Sanzo could be siblings
Or that. You fiend!