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OK, this is the promised thread for talking about louiselux and emungere's serial fic on their community site curious_spells.

This is an NC-17 story that they summed up as "a demented, porn filled cracktastic [S]aiyuki au where Gojyo is Hakkai's boytoy." However, as of yesterday's installment (Chapter 8), it is turning into rather more than that ... things are getting occult and mythologic as all get out (which had been suggested by the Hakkai-proxy's name, from the first), and the Gojyo-proxy is in wa-a-ay over his head.

Please use topic headings ... . And ~~I'm afraid I've f-locked it~~. [ETA: I've taken the f-lock off. If someone gets scandalized ... OK, they get scandalized.] Oh, and I'm going to post topics to my own post, if you see what I mean ... .

(Wow, the song now playing is freakily apropos ... .)

Current Mood: enthralled
Current Music: "Will You Still Love Me Tomorrow?" - Carole King

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Eeek, I was scared for Angel! BTW, kebse means "concubine."

I'm leaning now toward the idea than Robin and Rose are both "hounds" of the Huntress character from the dream, and that this is going to be an Urban Fantasy with fae ... is the Huntress Titania?

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I have a feeling that we shouldn't be to literal in assigning roles in specific legends to characters in the series. I don't think the poor blond guy is anyone but some other mortal caught in the coils, so to speak.

Several people were mentioning Tam Lin, which seems right on some points, and I alsi think I see a touch of Andersen's "The Snow Queen," with Angel as Gerda and Robin as Kay. And the nifty thing about "The Snow Queen" is that is has a couple of supporting roles: the nasty-tempered little bandit girl who reluctantly helps Gerda (Sanzo?) and the girl's faithful, naive, long-suffering reindeer (Goku?).

Re Tam Lin: one of my favorite Diana Wynne Jones books is Fire and Hemlock, which is based on a number of legends, tales, and myths, but most obviously on "Tam Lin."

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I have a feeling that some of the irrepressibility and insistence of testing the situation is what's attracting Robin so strongly, to his surprise.

I do think that Robin was actually fucking him that night - it wasn't a dream. With his anger over Rose and his fear of a demand to give Angel up to his mistress, Angel's gentle love-making earlier (in the bath) hadn't been enough to dispel his feelings: he cast a spell (or used mind-powers, depending on how you want to look at it) to put Angel to sleep before using him that way. It looks like he really is reluctant for Angel to know him as a brute: he's already fearing rejection as another human being would, as well as feeling possessive toward his toy.

But Angel starts to wake up anyway. Was Robin's spell lapsing as he got into the sex? Or has our Angel got some latent powers of his own, and Robin is causing them to awake, gradually?

(And Angel should have examined the sheet when he woke up ... I supposed Robin could have changed them while he slept, but that would have indicated something too!)

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Re the sheets: I'm willing to bet that with Robin as Hakkai at his most clean-neat-freak-ish, those sheets are changed at least daily, and the hell with the ecological cost in water and energy. Remember Angel's thoughts about why it didn't matter that he was dropping crumbs all over? So I doubt that the remnants of the previous night's not-quite-solitary playtime would have been there. (And that also explains why he found it so hard, that one time, to find any of Robin's scent on the pillows: all he could find was what had escaped though the fresh-daily pillowcase into the pillow cover itself.)

I'm also ambivalent about whether he really has had another boytoy. Rose says yes, but he says no. Maybe he's never had one right in his apartment with him: maybe he usually sets them up with their own place. Or maybe he never has had a special single concubine before, and Rose is the one who's been gathering up the pretties and turning them over: "It's my job" but "you hate your job."

Yes, I think the "cupidity" has already shifted from Angel's longing for the things that money can buy and Robin's longing for a love-doll that he can keep always to the next level for both of them. Angel wants someone who validates his existence (he thinks about himself as human trash, pretty much, and is both horrified and moved - and then intoxicated - by how much he affects Robin) and is willing to protect him, and Robin wants someone who loves him for something other than what he can do for them in the crass sense (buying them with money, or with effective service - the being the case, I'm just guessing, with his Lady).

Note that Robin is still treating him as a thing, though. He's moved from toy to pet, at least. That business of pulling Angel to him and caressing his nude body after that unsettling phone call was in many ways a kinky echo of a child cuddling his kitty or doggie after an upsetting experience.

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(I'm going to start another thread on this post, since things have taken another turn ... I'm hoping it'll keep this readable for longer.)

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I wonder if I'm right ... I'm thinking that that horrible phone call that freaked Robin out so bad included his making a deal for Angel: that he would find some more pretty boys for Rose to bring to the Lady if she would keep her paws off Angel.

And if that's so, he's going to be feeling awful and really really want Angel when he wakes up and then he's going to be pissed as hell that Angel wandered off when he needed him.

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(Yeah, but Kubota would never take Tokito where Robin just took Angel ... literally or emotionally ... .)

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Maybe it wasn't Rose, maybe it was someone higher up. Maybe Rose took her revenge by mentioning Angel's existence up the line ... .

It depends on when. I doubt he'll think that Angel was snatched out of the bedroom of his yacht, but if Angel makes it off the yacht, then yes, that's possible. And if he catches up with him and he's unharmed, we're gonna have those punishment scenes a la the kink meme ... .

I don't know that it was a death wish ... oblivion, though, yes. He didn't want to think about Robin, and Rose's accusations. The all-enveloping novelty of the environment - in the water, at night, in another country - was keeping him from thinking.

I'm sure that in one way, he's hoping that Robin comes after him and begs him nicely to stay, and has a decent explanation for what happened at the club.

Re the voice: maybe. Possible.

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>> he doesn't have anything to run TOWARDS... <<

Very true. We hear very little thus far about what's been going on in his past - I presume in true Saiyuki fashion we'll have little bits of flashbacks, a la his recollection about Neil.

(Heh, I used to go hide in the basement closet under the stairs, in the dark, when my mom was on a tear so I wouldn't have to hear her or face her ... .)

Yes - as I said, it seemed like a spell or something like that, to put him to sleep so suddenly. And to me there seemed to be a terrible gentleness to it - he knew what he wanted to do, and was going to do, and didn't want Angel to experience it. (Huh, wonder whether they were thinking of the kink meme story about Hakkai using his chi to keep Gojyo asleep while he molested him.)

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You know, I'm far from certain he got rid of the neck chain with the nametag. He takes off and throws the earrings, and then:

He took off the [chains] on his ankles and held them against the edge, watched them slither over and drop into the blue water. Left wrist, gone as well. He held the one from his right wrist suspended and felt almost hypnotized by it. It caught the sun and sent little skittering reflections down his shirt and over his leg.

No mention of the one around his neck aside from that it's the first one he notices.

I think he's still got it. It's very important: I think that's the bit that says, basically, that he has a piece of Robin's heart. Remember how pissed Rose got when she saw it?

It's really interesting that he could visit Eos/Titania/Laurel (the last her name from DWJ's Fire and Hemlock) in broad daylight! Yes, more than just decorative ... .

The cell phone thing was heartbreaking. Poor Robin ... but I also think that without Angel there to remind him of how much (and why) he cares, the anger will grow.

Leaving via crossing over salt water should be important, but I don't know if they are running the mythologies the same way. Robin should be unable to track him now, by what I remember. But if he has a hair, or something like that, he may be able to scry for him. I bet those "hounds" have a variety of ways to track victims.

Edited Date: 2007-11-22 05:45 am (UTC)

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I'm missing Robin - without him, there's no sexual tension. But Angel needs to grow a bit, I guess, before he encounters Robin again.

You know, I think you had said something earlier, about Robin's using magical influence or whatever to influence Angel so that he wasn't getting freaked out by the magical happenings. And I thought that was plausible (and did you notice the way he's remembering his time with Robin, a chapter or two ago, when he's thinking that Robin's voice is easy to remember but the events aren't?)

But now, he's taking the possibility of magical events in stride even without Robin's influence.

And I find it really interesting that Eos is stealing his hair right after I commented (on the community) about Robin's being able to find one of Angel's hairs in the cabin ... .

;-)

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Yes, he still has it! >smug< And now we know what it says ... .

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Well, Eos hasn't harmed him - yet - and she didn't take off the necklace. Curses tend to be "letter of the law."

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I love that Robin's the half-breed! Did you see my crack on their Chap. 16 page - wondering whether Angel will be the one with the powerful super-human alternate form? That would be so cool!

Yes, poor Rose is in deep deep trouble - and it's Alberich's curse!

I love Robin trying to make sweet nice love to Angel - and Angel is so into him that it works just fine - and vice versa!

I guess we don't get to find out about the sea gifts yet, though.

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I'm thinking that it might simply be the connection between Alberich and curses, a connection that doesn't seem to exist for the fairy king in his Auberon/Oberon aspect (and have you read Little, Big? Or did I ask that already?).

You know, I got a little feeling of unease when Angel was saying how things could be worse: "She could be my mother ... " What if Angel's mother isn't really his mother? This is !Gojyo, after all ... and he has an older brother who left, for some mysterious reason, just like the original ... .

I love Angel quoting Mr. Rogers to Robin to comfort him! And of course, Robin has no flippin' idea what he's talking about ... . And Angel has finally got a bit of the tenderness that he wanted from Robin.

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Now Robin is being (mostly) open and honest, and he's realized he's in love with Angel, so now they really are making love: he's trying to give Angel pleasure, instead of just taking it and letting Angel have whatever crumbs may fall in the process.

And Angel - oh God, the poor kid, to feel uneasy because someone is being kind to him. What the hell is his history?

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I think you're right about the gold - it's far more than just a metal.

(And I started a new thread ... .)

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I'm drowning you in recs, smilla ... sing out when it starts driving you nuts.

Little, Big (by John Crowley) is a strange, dreamy book about a diffident young man from the big city who falls in love with and marries one of his best friend's cousins: a woman whose family has some strange connections with faerie and whose family home in the country is a nexus of many worlds. It rambles all over the place and has many plots - some of which are just lame - but it's beautifully written and very profound about a lot of things, including love and the passage of time.

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I'm sure I will ... my mind likes to seek out equivalents, so I keep thinking of examples from books. Have you actually started any of the dozen or so I've rec'ed in the past couple of weeks? Or are they all still on order?

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You've also got to figure he's been in a couple (or more) odd relationships - he doesn't expect much out of his lovers in terms of tenderness. Look how amazed he's been at every decent, reciprocal thing Robin has done to him in the past couple of encounters.

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(And the new chapter is up! Why is it up early today, when I'm at work, and was late yesterday, when I was home online, with the Young Lady fussing at me because she wanted to catch up on her web comics?)

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Yeah ... I was actually thinking he might have been involved with some very physical but not very considerate guy (or guys) who kept him from being beaten up but didn't pay much attention to whether he was enjoying himself much during sex. He seems quite skilled at being on the "receptive" end of most of the common behaviors, and rather surprised to have anyone doing anything like that to him!

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Yeah, I was actually a little worried for Angel for a moment when Robin was saying "You don't like nice," but Robin proved his increasing mensch-hood on that point. And yes, the reading scene was adorable. I think Robin knew he had a headache. I wonder if he just figured that out by watching him snuggle back under the covers, away from the light (and in view of how Angel had been putting away the champagne) or if he's developing some kind of magical empathy (which is one of my favorite romantic fantasy tropes).

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So, I like Alberich, which I didn't really expect! And he thinks Robin and Angel are married, or at least engaged!

I was really impressed at Angel's offering to endanger himself to save Rose. But even though I liked Robin's refusal on the one hand, I think there's still a little too much possessiveness there: he has yet to appreciate how Angel might feel strongly about things and should be allowed to make his own decisions. But then, Robin's upbringing was probably pretty weak onconcepts like that!

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Heh, if you mean her other Ukoku/Hakkai thing, it's visible on her site now. I'll have to start haunting hers as well.

Hmmm ... interesting idea, that Robin could heal. And of course it goes with the Hakkai role. (And also makes me wonder about whether one of them wrote the sleep-sex on the kink meme ... but if he can heal, why didn't he fix Angel's ass after the sleep sex in this story? Although he did comment to himself that it didn't hurt much ... .)

Yes, being owned means someone else is responsible for you ... but that can also be a bad thing.

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You're right ... the whole books thing. I downloaded and read Gaiden all in one huge lump recently when sanada got me a functional download site for some scanslations, and I need to go back through it more carefully, because I haven't digested it very well yet!

Angel = Knight of Cups, Robin = Knight of Swords (and God, that even matches my icon where I put them into that card-suit folk song ... ). Angel's all emotion and the desire to undertake quests, Robin's more dangerous and driven by dark things like vengeance. Weirdly, if Angel had been given a more forgiving religious upbringing, one that engaged his heart, he could have been an ecstatic adherent, I think.

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Part of Angel is still stuck back in "I am Robin's little pet - he cares about me because I am his possession" and hasn't yet advanced to "we are becoming life-partners." But Alberich's a sly old fox, and he knows where this headed - if they survive. And Robin, having given his heart, thinks it's only reasonable.

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Hee ... yeah, Robin and his Hollywood reality ... !

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Yeah, the Firestarter site. But it doesn't have the latest one yet (that came out on radiofreebanri, but of course we only have their silly half-assed translation). Yesh. why the hell don't they license it? It's already got a guaranteed fanbase!

:-D I love finding thematic matches ... (check out this business ... at the end of it, sanada and I go off on fruit symbolism in Saiyuki).

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OMG ... things are getting very, very deep into Faerie now. Did Angel give away his future with Robin in exchange for the Queen's blood? Or just his dream of it, so that it can still become a reality? (And you need to read Fire and Hemlock, smilla ... .)

And Alberich ... what a shocker. And why could Rose now destroy him, if Robin couldn't (as he says)?

Jenny is something else - I wonder how much of this she has done before! Also, part of me keeps wanting to go "Jenny = Genjyo = Sanzo," but she's not nearly bitchy enough, and where the hell is Goku, in that case?

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Actually, I was thinking of the "Ukoku is Hakkai's Daddy" story ... .

I think maybe he was already starting to feel that Angel could be the confidant that he'd always craved, so when he managed to wake out of the spell, he confessed to him ... he was already more open than usual, because of having sex and being more his fae self. (I think the moment he started to fall in love with him was when he found that Angel had spent the day playing in park and only wanted to eat pizza ... it was so much the antithesis of the sort of person who'd sell his soul for gold.)

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I might like them better if I didn't try to think of them as pears. To me, pears should be soft and mostly smooth, like a Bartlett gets when its ripe.

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Well, I can go with berserker - but she's not totally lost it. She killed Alberich because she knew it would wound Eos the most.

I agree that Jenny is too amenable to be Sanzo, but the name thing is a funny coincidence.

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I like my apples crispy (Braeburn, Macintosh) and my pears soft and smooth (Bartlett, esp. the red ones)!

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And ... that's it!

Poor Angel is still all ripped up from his experiences. There was something so talismanic about the way he ran for his Pez dispenser and went to the 7-11 and then to feed the ducks ... "Normal! Mundane! I want boring!" But he's never going to be the same, poor kid. A little part of him is always going to be back in the forests of Faerie.

I liked Robin's complete physical surrender to his lover at last - very symbolic, as well as hot.

I want them to find a nice house in Vermont, near a waterfall. The neighbors won't bother them, there'll be forests, and Angel can run into town to buy Pez when he needs it!

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Oooh, good catch - I hadn't noticed the equivalence about the sleepy cuddle/comfort bits. Yes, I think that once Angel started to realize that Robin needed him for something beyond sex, he was able to think in terms of love, even if he still can't say it aloud.

You thought it was Lirin? She's blond, not red-headed, and the parallel is constantly being made between Gojyo and Kou, in terms of looks - and Kou is one short dude, even if his presence makes him seem bigger. (I've got to hand it to Minekura for making that come through in static drawings.) I really think it's Kougaiji ... .

They are so very married ... I feel very loving toward Angel, and close to him, at the end - I'm obsessed with trees too.

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Well, the whole joke is, I guess, just playing on the idea of brothers than runs through the Kou/Dokugaku/Gojyo continuum, with Gojyo being Doku's brother but looking more like Kou, and Doku admitting that Kou reminds him of Gojyo. So it's funny either way.

But I've never seen any sign that Doku is interested in Lirin in any way ... did we ever see them interact at all? She has a couple of scenes with Yaone, but the only time we see her with Doku is when he breaks her out of the tank and carries her from the lab.

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chomiji

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