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Saiyuki Tarot, Anybody?
So smillaraaq and I were talking a little about Saiyuki and the tarot, and it's kind of fun matching up characters and events to cards. I'm thinking in terms of the classic Rider-Waite deck, which has events for the pip cards in the four suits.
For our four boys, at the simplest level, I'd go with the Knights of the four suits. The definitions re personality traits for these tend to be open enough that you can find things that match each of the guys, and they also work pretty well with something that kispexi2 put forth, which is that you can match Sanzo/Hakkai/Gojyo/Goku up with Spirit/Mind/Heart/Body. That matches well with the four Western elements used in the tarot: Fire/Air/Water/Earth, which are represented by Wands/Swords/Cups/Pentacles.
I would use the Knights not only for the guys' phase in life - young men - but also because of the questing element. They're in the mode of seeking: the solution to the Minus Wave, the sutras - of course, but also their own true selves. That goes very well with the intention of the Knight (or Prince) cards in the tarot. So we have:
Knight of Wands - Sanzo: fire, spirit or will - daring, insensitive, unconcerned with the small stuff, will tackle what others avoid, lacks inner peace, angers easily, has a chip on his shoulder. In many ways, Sanzo is the Knight of Wands reversed. This is true to some extent with all of them.
Knight of Swords - Hakkai: air, intellect - not as good a match in the traditional definitions of the Knight. But the Swords court cards in general have lots of Hakkai-type aspects: sorrow, firm resolve, speaking directly (which Hakkai does do, especially to Sanzo: he's the one to lay out the actual conflicts or choices before them), analyzing problems, accepting responsibility, verbal wit. In the same way that pick this card as a Significator for a young man in this stage of life who struck me as serious and brainy, but troubled, I'd use this one for Hakkai.
Knight of Cups - Gojyo: water, emotions - This is a solid match in many ways, but it's also funny and seemingly wrong in others: our brash, potty-mouthed kappa matched up with the sensitive romantic. But he is a sensitive romantic, even though he hasn't a clue how best to act on it most of the time. One of the sources I used for this says "brings flowers, but forgets to put gas in the car." That's our Gojyo, alright. Lacks self-restraint, has big ideas that come to nothing, helps others open up, appreciates beauty in all forms, exaggerates personal failings, sees below the surface, takes offense easily.
Knight of Pentacles - Goku: earth, body - Another pretty good match, as long as you don't get distracted and assume that "diligent" only means "does well at completing boring tasks assigned by others." Goku is very diligent in his pursuit of his own physical excellence and his devotion to Sanzo. Dogged in pursuit of a goal, can become dedicated to a task, never leaves a job half done, is hardheaded and obstinate, stands firm against opposition. No, he's not prudent - but in general, he doesn't need to be.
This is not the only time these guys would appear in the deck, though. For example, Sanzo has also got to be The Sun (see below).
More Thoughts
I've thought of a few others in passing ....
The Tower - Kami-sama's castle, falling - upheaval, crisis, revelation, seeing through illusions.
The Devil - Why, I do believe it's Ukoku, and the people he has in bondage ought to be GK and Hazel. Being obsessed, believing only in the physical, overindulging the senses, choosing to stay in the dark, lacking faith, seeing a cold world.
The Sun - Sanzo apotheosized/arisen (Sanzo as what he could become, and what Goku sees in him) - understanding, enlightenment, freedom, joy.
The Moon - this poses an interesting issue. This should be Koumyou, of course. But in Western tarot, the Moon as a card is deception, illusions, self-deceit. I guess we need to change our Tarot.
The World - I like Goku for this as far as meaning goes, but it could be Kanzeon, especially because the Rider-Waite description specifies that the person depicted in the World is actually a hermaphrodite, with "the scarf hiding the truth." Wholeness, achieving goals, healing, sharing, taking pleasure in life, fulfillment.
The Two of Cups - Gojyo and Hakkai sitting at Gojyo's little kitchen table, talking, smiling, each with a cup before him, and cards on the table. The time is "Be There," when they're really getting to know each other. Cementing a friendship, helping and being helped, bringing together opposites, recognizing a bond that is developing, accepting your preferences.
The Six of Swords - Gojyo carrying Goku and Hakkai away after the battle in Reload 7. Picking up the pieces, functioning but not much more, heading toward a more positive place, being uprooted, feeling depressed.
So what do you think? Any other ideas for cards? Want to counter my choices? The resource I was using for card meanings (in addition to what I know already) is right here. (And I found that someone had done an anime Saiyuki version here, but I don't think much of most of their choices ... .) Let's talk!
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OK, some thoughts:
The Empress: Ratsetsunyo
The Lovers: Hmmph. H&G, Who else? ;)
The Heirophant: Koumyou
Wheel of Fortune: The 4 Gaiden boys as a group
High Priestess: Kanzeon
The Hermit: Hakkai
The Fool: Dokugakuji
The Emperor: Kougaiji
The Chariot: Sanzo in his role as a priest
Strength: Goku
Justice: The Sanbutsushin
Hanged Man: Gojyo
Temperance: Yaone
The Star: Lirin
The Moon: Gyokoumen K
I need to think about hte other trumps.
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All the best people are geeks!
Hmm, my comments:
The Lovers: Hmmph. H&G, Who else? ;) LOL - yes, and Kanzeon up in Heaven smiling down ...
The Hermit: Hakkai - Hmmm ... not Koumyou? I like Hakkai using his chi as the Magician - not that he couldn't be both. He's talented, that boy ... .
The Fool: Dokugakuji - well, the Fool is the Soul setting out on its journey, so I thought maybe the 4 of them - Jeep even echoes the Fool's little white dog in the R-W deck!
The Heirophant: Koumyou - this is religion as orthodoxy, so maybe someone else would be better?
Strength: Goku - Possible, but to match the R-W "Strength," I'd take either Sanzo subduing the Seiten Tasei or Gojyo brining Hakkai to his senses during the fight in Reload 7
The Hanged Man: Gojyo - Hmm, I'd rather Doku here, or Gonou going before the Sanbutsushin ... the idea is surrendering yourself to your fate, which Gojyo doesn't, really.
Kanzeon is a great High Priestess, and I really like Yaone as Temperence. G-K is a good Moon, or maybe Zakuro ... .
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I like the Jade Emperor idea, although I'm not sure anyone will recognize him. The Abbott is the right sort of person, but it would be better to have the Major Arcana be major characters, I think.
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XD
The Empress is the feminine principal as power figure, complete with lots of fertility symbolism. The R-W deck uses symbols with her like the rabbit and sheaves of wheat (which also show up in the Pantacles cards in the Minor Arcana, which is the Earth suit). Minekura's Kanzeon is of completely ambiguous sexuality and not fertile except in ideas and causing trouble ... so, no Empress for Kanzeon!
Suggestions that other people have made for him/her include the High Priestess (which indicates female magical power, power in potentia, and magical knowledge) and the World (because the R-W deck allows for the interpretation that the central figure is a hermaphrodite, and also because her role as Goddess of Mercy works well with the completion/wholeness aspects of the card).
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Well, I'd prefer the 585 Lovers because they are each other's salvation, as we've discussed, and that's behind the R-W sybolism for the lovers. You notice they're not looking at each other. The gazes form a triangle: he looks at her, she looks at the Angel, and the Angel looks at him. I'd have Hakkai, who's much more conscious of the spiritual aspects of all of this, looking up to Kanzeon, who looks at Gojyo (whom she's already used as her agent), who looks at Hakkai.
I don't know the story with Homura. Tell?
vom_marlowe was suggesting Nataku for the Hanged Man. I also think he'd be really good as Death, which is avierra's idea.
Yes, I mentioned Sanzo subduing the Seiten Tasei as Strength (and also Gojyo restraining Hakkai during vol. 7!).
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Ahh, OK. You mentioned those guys before, but we were focusing on how Shien and Zenon were like Hakkai and Gojyo, and I didn't make the connection with Homura's underlying motivations.
OK - then yes, I guess he might be a good choice for the Hanged Man.